20mph+ from EZIP 24 volt OEM pack! - Page 3

DrkAngel · #41 (**permalink**) 01-27-2010, 08:01 PM

When the 36v upgrade is performed in conjunction with the 16T freewheel upgrade the EZip becomes capable of near 30mph, unfortunately, wind resistance becomes the major speed limiting factor.

Crouching should produce a couple more mph!

Highly recommended would be a pedal side freewheel upgrade. The motor is not designed to be worked this hard, continuously, and any help from you would be greatly appreciated!

My Trailz is really my best road bike. It will get a 36v upgrade and a 11-28T freewheel, It already has the 16T motor freewheel upgrade. At 30mph capability, it will be my "fair weather friend"!

Yes, everything will get cleaned, lubed and tuned!

Oops! Almost forgot:

IZip Mountain Trailz AL will be getting the 16T motor freewheel upgrade and have the 14-34T pedal freewheel upgraded with a 11-32T. I don't plan on upgrading to 36v, yet, I still have 25.9v Li-ions and 24v NiMh packs, in need of testing. Of course I want to see what the oem IZip is like, but it looks like I had best change the motor freewheel before I run the bike and get the freewheel permanently "set".

I'm trying desperately to quell my spring fever by preparing - keeping busy. Don't know that I could cope if I only had 1 bike.

Quick links to upgrades are listed here:
http://www.ecoforumz.com/electric-bi...-round-up.html

If winter lasts too long I'll have to "Ebike" a 3 wheeler, for my mother. That will be a great project. Yes, I'll keep good records and take lots of pictures. Hadn't planned on doing it till NY legalizes ebikes, (still stuck in the Senate), but I can't wait forever!

guppeeh · #42 (**permalink**) 01-28-2010, 08:21 AM

SUCCESS! I got rolling balls!

So last night I took vengence on the freewheel with my dremel by cutting right thru the outer ring with the gear teeths. After popping that off, the bearing balls exploded out like M&Ms. With the inner ring exposed, I had a large surface to clamp my large plyers. The extra leverage was what I needed and the dang thing finally screwed off.

After putting on the new freewheel, I had to take the bike out in the middle of the night. Running at 36v, my speed increased from 24mph with stock freewheel to 27mph with the new freewheel. Nice but less than I expected.

Here's the bad new: at the 6th test run, the chain snapped. I must have misjudged the tension between the motor and the new freewheel when I put my bike back together. Also, I used a washer to keep from grinding the Southpaw freewheel. However, that increased the offset between the freewheel gear and the motor gear...I wonder if that may have contributed to the chains demise?

Quote:

Originally Posted by go4it

I've taken my share of freewheels off and a few were on rusty old hubs but I never had the problems your having. I'm sure you've been asked this before so no offence but you are sure your turning it as a left hand?

If you can post some pics maybe someone can offer a thought to help. The last one i took off of a kids bike I had to remove the bearing cap and dismantal it. The only thing left on the wheel was the threaded section. I clamped that into my vice and turned the wheel (just as your saying). But as I said I had the freewheel disassembled at that point. The total process only took me 10 minutes though. But those little balls rolling around the floor almost killed me.

DrkAngel · #43 (**permalink**) 01-28-2010, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guppeeh

SUCCESS! I got rolling balls!

So last night I took vengence on the freewheel with my dremel by cutting right thru the outer ring with the gear teeths. After popping that off, the bearing balls exploded out like M&Ms. With the inner ring exposed, I had a large surface to clamp my large plyers. The extra leverage was what I needed and the dang thing finally screwed off.

After putting on the new freewheel, I had to take the bike out in the middle of the night. Running at 36v, my speed increased from 24mph with stock freewheel to 27mph with the new freewheel. Nice but less than I expected.

Here's the bad new: at the 6th test run, the chain snapped. I must have misjudged the tension between the motor and the new freewheel when I put my bike back together. Also, I used a washer to keep from grinding the Southpaw freewheel. However, that increased the offset between the freewheel gear and the motor gear...I wonder if that may have contributed to the chains demise?

Am glad you got operational, ... for a while, anyhow. Offset of, less than, 1/8" should have no determent, chain being too tight - definitely bad. Too tight will damage motor, freewheel, chain or all three. Guess you were lucky.

Walmart has full size, (single speed), (1/2 x 1/8), chain for $5.99 & chain breaker for $5. Chain & breaker both come with the necessary "master link".

Tight is very bad, snug is bad, slight looseness is best, more loose is "not as bad".

Wind resistance is your enemy now, crouching should bump you up another couple mph. Also check tire pressure etc.

Pedal freewheel upgrade, highly recommended. Extra pedal power should move you past 30mph.

Remember, the EZip motor @ 24v is only 6/10s of 1 horse power, @ 36v 9/10s HP!

go4it · #44 (**permalink**) 01-28-2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrkAngel

Pedal freewheel upgrade, highly recommended. Extra pedal power should move you past 30mph.

Remember, the EZip motor @ 24v is only 6/10s of 1 horse power, @ 36v 9/10s HP! [/COLOR]

I totally agree a peddle freewheel is a great idea on any bike. So can you give us info on the crank (peddle) freewheel (cost, where you got it and what sprocket size did you use)?

DrkAngel · #45 (**permalink**) 01-28-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go4it

I totally agree a peddle freewheel is a great idea on any bike. So can you give us info on the crank (peddle) freewheel (cost, where you got it and what sprocket size did you use)?

http://www.ecoforumz.com/134328-post12.html

go4it · #46 (**permalink**) 01-28-2010, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrkAngel

http://www.ecoforumz.com/134328-post12.html

OK, sorry I thought you also changed out the crank to use a freewheel. This is something I would like to do but the parts are in my opinion to expensive.

guppeeh · #47 (**permalink**) 01-28-2010, 03:06 PM

You know what, I used my breaker to put the chain back together and didn't use a masterlink. It did make that one link really tight where I squeezed the pin back in. I now wonder if that added stress killed the link.

Anyways, at 27mph with standard gearing, I don't think I contributed much to the propulsion. Also at 27mph, even small bumps will jostled ya off the seat. I don't think I'd want to push the bike past 30mph.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrkAngel

Am glad you got operational, ... for a while, anyhow. Offset of, less than, 1/8" should have no determent, chain being too tight - definitely bad. Too tight will damage motor, freewheel, chain or all three. Guess you were lucky.

Walmart has full size, (single speed), (1/2 x 1/8), chain for $5.99 & chain breaker for $5. Chain & breaker both come with the necessary "master link".

Tight is very bad, snug is bad, slight looseness is best, more loose is "not as bad".

Wind resistance is your enemy now, crouching should bump you up another couple mph. Also check tire pressure etc.

Pedal freewheel upgrade, highly recommended. Extra pedal power should move you past 30mph.

Remember, the EZip motor @ 24v is only 6/10s of 1 horse power, @ 36v 9/10s HP!

guppeeh · #48 (**permalink**) 01-29-2010, 10:32 AM

Well, I found my problem. After I replaced the chain and ran the motor slowly, I realize the misalignment of the motor gear and the freewheel gear was causing the chain to rub against them. At slow speed, I hear a faint click as the chain rubs against the side of the gear teeths. At high speed, the noise is masked. At top speed, the forces on the chain is too much and one of the links give up the ghost.

I think this is a combination problem is made worst by a) the motor bracket/mount getting bent when I dropped my bike once b) the extra washer c) the replacement freewheel slightly offcenter from the stock freewheel. I will have to come up with a solution to line up the gear teeths better and keep the chain as straight as possible.

Hopefully my experience here may be helpful for others that aren't having the smoothest upgrade.

DrkAngel · #49 (**permalink**) 01-29-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guppeeh

Well, I found my problem.

I think this is a combination problem is made worst by a) the motor bracket/mount getting bent when I dropped my bike once b) the extra washer c) the replacement freewheel slightly offcenter from the stock freewheel. I will have to come up with a solution to line up the gear teeths better and keep the chain as straight as possible.

Hopefully my experience here may be helpful for others that aren't having the smoothest upgrade.

Washer should alter alignment only about 1/16", minimal factor, I would think.

Replacement freewheel has teeth identical distance from hub.

Should not affect alignment, at all.

Must be caused by, "the motor bracket/mount getting bent when I dropped my bike"

Do you have a picture?

Waterfordjim · #50 (**permalink**) 05-28-2010, 04:57 PM

I had no problem removing the stock freewheel. Mine came with four cutaways just like the ACS 16T freewheel so removal was a snap..... This mod, along with the taller 7 speed freewheel mod, improves this bike dramatically! Highly recommended to anyone that wants their bike the way it should have been built in the FIRST PLACE. Now It is usually going 20-22 MPH as I pedal down in the 11T gear..... Thanks so much to DrkAngel for the assistance!

Waterfordjim · #51 (**permalink**) 05-28-2010, 05:05 PM

Here are some images of the modifications: On my bike, I did not have to grind down anything on the left side 16T freewheel to make it go back together. It was very simple in all aspects..... No alignment or clearance issues anywhere. Shortening the chain was a snap. When I replaced the right side freewheel, only minor derailleur adjustments were needed. I cannot wait to do my 1000 mile report.....

DrkAngel · #52 (**permalink**) 05-28-2010, 09:35 PM

It's nice to hear that Currie is using a "real", (replaceable), freewheel now.

"Speed On!"

DrkAngel · #53 (**permalink**) 05-29-2010, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterfordjim

Here are some images of the modifications: On my bike, I did not have to grind down anything on the left side 16T freewheel to make it go back together. It was very simple in all aspects..... No alignment or clearance issues anywhere. Shortening the chain was a snap. When I replaced the right side freewheel, only minor derailleur adjustments were needed. I cannot wait to do my 1000 mile report.....

Freewheel question - All of the EZip freewheels I've removed, turn almost silently, but feel like they are filled with tar. Which makes "pedal only" mode much harder than it needs to be, about like, having the brakes dragging. Can you describe the quality & characteristics of your, removed, freewheel?

Waterfordjim · #54 (**permalink**) 06-05-2010, 04:56 PM

Yes. Mine is the same as the rest.... Feels like it is filled with tar but very silent.... Now it pedals easier without the motor! It is amusing to hear the 16T freewheel spool up off throttle when I coast now as the clicking is very audible. The tradeoffs of doing these mods are SO worth the extra speed. I just love this EZIP now!!!

guppeeh · #55 (**permalink**) 06-30-2010, 09:46 AM

hey DarkAngel, I know you said you saw a 14t freewheel but it didn't fit. But I checked the thread (1/8") and it looks good. Can you share your thoughts? Thanks.

14T ACS southpaw left side drive freewheel BLK/Gold OEM - eBay (item 310229836499 end time Jul-26-10 22:49:55 PDT)

garyhgaryh · #56 (**permalink**) 07-27-2010, 10:46 PM

Hi darkangel, what happens if I put 36 volt on the new controller? Will the bike just shut down? reason I ask is that I have an '08 and want to run a 36volt battery AND your 20mph mod on my ezip.
Gary

Ps. I'm going to take my dc power supply and hook up 36 volt to see what hapepns. Be back

garyhgaryh · #57 (**permalink**) 07-27-2010, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyhgaryh

Hi darkangel, what happens if I put 36 volt on the new controller? Will the bike just shut down? reason I ask is that I have an '08 and want to run a 36volt battery AND your 20mph mod on my ezip.
Gary

Ps. I'm going to take my dc power supply and hook up 36 volt to see what hapepns. Be back

I failed. My Protek DC power supply can only go up to 30Volt DC. I was able to test up to 31 volts. I couldn't test 36 volts, but at 31volts, my ezip turned on. I turned the throttle and the wheel spun.

Gary

jamesriver51 · #58 (**permalink**) 08-01-2010, 05:33 PM

Really enjoy the posts on the Mountain Trailz. I have two bikes and one is giving me problems. The Power cuts in and out. I have taken it to an electrical shop since there are no dealers in my town and they can't find the problem. Any thoughts on what could be causing this.

Thanks

Pat

go4it · #59 (**permalink**) 08-01-2010, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesriver51

Really enjoy the posts on the Mountain Trailz. I have two bikes and one is giving me problems. The Power cuts in and out. I have taken it to an electrical shop since there are no dealers in my town and they can't find the problem. Any thoughts on what could be causing this.

Thanks

Pat

There are several problems that can cause your problem as follows; the controller, throttle, internal battery conections, battery contactors, wiring harnesses and even a motor problem. First off how old is the bike? If it's still under warranty talk to Currie. Actually Currie maybe a good place to start anyway. But considering you have 2 bikes you should be able to find the problem very easily by swapping parts between bikes. I would start by looking at all the connections be be sure they are not coming loose. Then swap one part (maybe the throttle of controller). If the problem stays with the original bike swap another and so on till you find the problem.

Clunge · #60 (**permalink**) 08-13-2010, 10:38 AM

Many thanks to DA for the pioneer work on the 20-16T conversion.

I did it 2 weeks ago.
Motor assist up to 21mph (Up from 16mph).
Average speed now 17.5mph (Up from 14mph)
Speed up my (moderate) hills has improved, which is a relief.

Best of all, the motor gives assist at normal cycling speeds, rather than easing off just as I get going.
I now arrive fresher, and am actually using more juice from the battery. Previously, I was using about half the AH in a 10AH SLA pack when on an 18 mile round trip. Now I use half the AH from 2x10AH packs wired in parallel.

I view this as a good thing. The bike is doing more useful work for me.

Before I did the conversion, I fitted an ammeter as I wondered how the controller regulated power vs speed.
Reposted from New Members forum:

On a standard 24v 20tooth Izip (at full throttle):

MPH.......AMPS.....Watts(calculated)...16toothMPH(calculated)
<10.......25..........625.......................<12.5
11.........22..........550.........................13.75
12.........18..........450.........................15
13.........14..........350.........................16.25
14.........10..........250.........................17.5
15..........5...........125.........................18.75
16..........2.3.........57.5(probably wasted)20
17+........2.3.........57.5(wasted)............21.25

I have also measured temperature of the motor. Maximum was 46c (115f)

My only problem so far has been the loss of bottom gear due to placing an extra washer on the cassette side of the axel

Oh yes, and I was overtaken by a lycra clad roadster yesterday. I was doing 18 and he was doing 20.

But I comfort myself with the thought that his heartrate was probably >140 and mine was <120.